Thank you for the excellent collection of info here, and thanks for answering my Chat questions (I will add more soon). The quadrangle you brought up involving Trump, Putin, Iran, and China is an interesting one to mull over, especially with the news this past week that 2 Iranians were arrested in NYC for plotting to assassinate the Pres. Elect, presumably under the direction of the Iranian Guard Corps.
Not only did I not read all "the dreck" in the NYTimes; I canceled my subscription, but kept my WaPo sub (bucking the trend, I know). Has anyone noticed how obviously on display the partisan bias at media outlets became this week? When the talking heads/pontificating op-ed writers vent their moral outrage at half of the American electorate, they not only demonstrate their bias but also ensure that few if any members of what they view as the deluded and/or morally deficient masses will be influenced by all that dreck. The Atlantic published many more insightful and much less in-the-tank-for-the-Dems analyses, including this one from Thomas Chatterton Williams (gifted article): https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/11/progressives-errors-2024-election/680563/?gift=AKbSn4toAaj1yz4qa1r_JN31kcUtZxYd66TzsDgufUA&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
As Williams notes in his article, the commentary of the high priests at MSNBC was particularly egregious.. After watching many MSNBC programs for over a decade, I finally tired of their framing of every issue in terms of identity politics and always adopting the most negative take on every thing Trump said or did. The final straw was their attempt to "normalize" (a word they used a zillion times regarding Trump) Biden's appalling debate. Stunned by the first few minutes of their 'don't believe your lying eyes and ears' normalization of that catastrophe, I switched to CNN, where the commentators believed their eyes and ears and called on Biden to exit the race, not just the GOP-aligned ones (which MSNBC rarely platforms), but the Dem-aligned ones as well, including David Axelrod.
As much as the pro-Trump commentary from CNN contributors/analysts such as Scott Jennings and David Urban often ruffles my liberal feathers, I - and my fellow liberals - need to hear what they have to say. Harris voters would have been less shocked by the elections results if they allowed themselves to be exposed to the other side's analysis and opinions. Even more importantly, Harris voters would be much less likely to deplore Trump voters and pronounce them not only anti-democratic but also - well, deplorable, lesser members of the human species. The same is true of Trump voters vis-a-vis Harris voters. I disagree with much that Jennings and Urban espouse, but I don't denounce them as people; they seem like decent humans. Imagine that! Listening to people who disagree with you is our only way to bridge the crevasse that divides us.
Thanks for the Atlantic link, it's an important and valuable read. It's also helpful to remember that the GOP/MAGA use identity politics just as much as the left does, but nobody calls it that. Using vile names for women, LGBTQ, nonwhites, etc. is identity politics. Spotlighting white males who feel left out is identity politics. The left asking for inclusion of underrepresented groups is comparable to the right asking for inclusion of non-college-educated white men.
Thanks for highlighting that both political parties practice identity politics. Of course, you're right and I fully agree with you. Your comment brings to the foreground something I might have felt/thought implicitly and vaguely, but now realize more fully. You make obvious the polarity of the parties' identity politics: Dems = women, ethnic minorities, heterodox genders, more secular ethic while GOP = men, whites, cisgender, Christian ethic. No wonder we talk past each other!
I too thought this implicitly/vaguely but had it confirmed by a Twitter thread by a thoughtful, young, African American political scientist. Unfortunately, insomnia last night kept me up thinking about this complicated can of worms! But like you said, talking past each other will be an ongoing challenge when we often have such profoundly different world views.
Thank you for the excellent collection of info here, and thanks for answering my Chat questions (I will add more soon). The quadrangle you brought up involving Trump, Putin, Iran, and China is an interesting one to mull over, especially with the news this past week that 2 Iranians were arrested in NYC for plotting to assassinate the Pres. Elect, presumably under the direction of the Iranian Guard Corps.
Not only did I not read all "the dreck" in the NYTimes; I canceled my subscription, but kept my WaPo sub (bucking the trend, I know). Has anyone noticed how obviously on display the partisan bias at media outlets became this week? When the talking heads/pontificating op-ed writers vent their moral outrage at half of the American electorate, they not only demonstrate their bias but also ensure that few if any members of what they view as the deluded and/or morally deficient masses will be influenced by all that dreck. The Atlantic published many more insightful and much less in-the-tank-for-the-Dems analyses, including this one from Thomas Chatterton Williams (gifted article): https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/11/progressives-errors-2024-election/680563/?gift=AKbSn4toAaj1yz4qa1r_JN31kcUtZxYd66TzsDgufUA&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
As Williams notes in his article, the commentary of the high priests at MSNBC was particularly egregious.. After watching many MSNBC programs for over a decade, I finally tired of their framing of every issue in terms of identity politics and always adopting the most negative take on every thing Trump said or did. The final straw was their attempt to "normalize" (a word they used a zillion times regarding Trump) Biden's appalling debate. Stunned by the first few minutes of their 'don't believe your lying eyes and ears' normalization of that catastrophe, I switched to CNN, where the commentators believed their eyes and ears and called on Biden to exit the race, not just the GOP-aligned ones (which MSNBC rarely platforms), but the Dem-aligned ones as well, including David Axelrod.
As much as the pro-Trump commentary from CNN contributors/analysts such as Scott Jennings and David Urban often ruffles my liberal feathers, I - and my fellow liberals - need to hear what they have to say. Harris voters would have been less shocked by the elections results if they allowed themselves to be exposed to the other side's analysis and opinions. Even more importantly, Harris voters would be much less likely to deplore Trump voters and pronounce them not only anti-democratic but also - well, deplorable, lesser members of the human species. The same is true of Trump voters vis-a-vis Harris voters. I disagree with much that Jennings and Urban espouse, but I don't denounce them as people; they seem like decent humans. Imagine that! Listening to people who disagree with you is our only way to bridge the crevasse that divides us.
Thanks for the Atlantic link, it's an important and valuable read. It's also helpful to remember that the GOP/MAGA use identity politics just as much as the left does, but nobody calls it that. Using vile names for women, LGBTQ, nonwhites, etc. is identity politics. Spotlighting white males who feel left out is identity politics. The left asking for inclusion of underrepresented groups is comparable to the right asking for inclusion of non-college-educated white men.
Thanks for highlighting that both political parties practice identity politics. Of course, you're right and I fully agree with you. Your comment brings to the foreground something I might have felt/thought implicitly and vaguely, but now realize more fully. You make obvious the polarity of the parties' identity politics: Dems = women, ethnic minorities, heterodox genders, more secular ethic while GOP = men, whites, cisgender, Christian ethic. No wonder we talk past each other!
I too thought this implicitly/vaguely but had it confirmed by a Twitter thread by a thoughtful, young, African American political scientist. Unfortunately, insomnia last night kept me up thinking about this complicated can of worms! But like you said, talking past each other will be an ongoing challenge when we often have such profoundly different world views.
Hope you'll sleep better tonight!